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In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
21-08-2014, 10:48 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2014 10:52 PM by madbad3k.)
Post: #1
In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
Hello Commanders..

Does anyone know how to overcome the problems I'm having with using TrackIR5 in game and operating the UI panel buttons from my keyboard.

I want to use TrackIR purely for flight views -(without it triggering the side panels opening and closing everytime I move my head a fraction left right or up down) and still use my keyboard bindings for opening / controlling the UI side panels.

With TrackIR unplugged, my UI keybindings for opening the side-panels for navigation, ship systems and sensors all function correctly. I use my cursor keys for moving up/ down / left and right etc.

With TrackIR active - none of my keybindings work - and the side panels pop up automatically if I move / tilt my head to the right of left. Unless i keep my head at a particular angle and hold it there (which gives me neck ache) the panels pop down.. before I can operate any of the action keys.

I think i have 'head control' mapped to direct input in the Elite options list - but i've tried both options - and neither works.

I had used TrackIR5 sucessfully with the 1st Alpha release - but since the Beta 1.3 its doesnt function correctly.

I've tried the TrackIR default Elite file option and other players own versions.

Any ideas?
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21-08-2014, 11:55 PM
Post: #2
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
I will first prefix this post with the fact that I don't own TrackIR (I'm an ED Tracker user) but...

As I understand it support for TrackIR is built directly into the Elite: Dangerous client. So it acts like the Oculus Rift in that you don't have to configure anything in the control options. My ED Tracker needs to be configured as yet another joystick input.

I found with the Rift (last weekend when I had access to one) that I need to keep looking at the panel for them to stay there, but it was not an uncomfortable head position, fifteen or so degrees to either side of ahead.

If you're having comfort issues then that suggests to me that your to close to the front of the cockpit. Is your virtual head in the right place? Are you too close to the TrackIR camera?

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22-08-2014, 03:18 AM
Post: #3
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
(21-08-2014 10:48 PM)madbad3k Wrote:  ...
With TrackIR active - none of my keybindings work - and the side panels pop up automatically if I move / tilt my head to the right of left. Unless i keep my head at a particular angle and hold it there (which gives me neck ache) the panels pop down.. before I can operate any of the action keys.
...

Unlike VoiceAttack, which is a background app, TrackIR support has to be actively supported in a game, and the situation you describe is the design implementation that ED have built into the game.

I'm not fond of it myself, and I agree that it would be nice if pressing the key for the side panel(s) overrode TrackIR and focussed on the desired panel. The only suggestion I can make is to try playing with the TrackIR profile so that less head movement is needed to make the panels pop up - this is what I did and I barely need to glance to the side. The negative is that the panels pop up all the time when I don't want them.

I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home tonight I'll post my profile for you to download, in case it is of help.

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22-08-2014, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 04:13 AM by madbad3k.)
Post: #4
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
(21-08-2014 11:55 PM)Dobbo Wrote:  I will first prefix this post with the fact that I don't own TrackIR (I'm an ED Tracker user) but...

As I understand it support for TrackIR is built directly into the Elite: Dangerous client. So it acts like the Oculus Rift in that you don't have to configure anything in the control options. My ED Tracker needs to be configured as yet another joystick input.

I found with the Rift (last weekend when I had access to one) that I need to keep looking at the panel for them to stay there, but it was not an uncomfortable head position, fifteen or so degrees to either side of ahead.

If you're having comfort issues then that suggests to me that your to close to the front of the cockpit. Is your virtual head in the right place? Are you too close to the TrackIR camera?

Many thanks for the response..... I'm sitting 2 feet away from the screen - so closeness isnt an issue. I used TrackIr originally, when the Alpha came out and Frontier and TrackIr released the 1st game profile for it. This seemed to work fine and wasn't causing an issue. I've not really been able to play Elite for some month or two - but since Beta 1.03 - the TrackIR is far too sensitive. You really do need to focus and hold your head at the correct angle / tilt - or the panel just flicks off. Im using a 27" DELL monitor - so its not some pidly small screen.
Even without the TrackIR issues - I still think the side panels need to be moved - as you cant access and manipulate them and fly ship easily

. It seems odd that the most important on board MFD displays - that would normally be located either on your HUD or dashboard - are actually on the side of your ship! Wouldnt happen in jet fighter.

These really should be located so they pop up at an angle left and right of your knees and below the Radar screen - so you can easily glance down and access them - whilst still having visuals to front etc. It would also assist the OR and TRackIR users to... as tilting your head down a fraction - is a lot less painful and uncomfortable - than having to hold your head / neck in a sideward tilt and turn.

(22-08-2014 03:18 AM)Hellhawk666 Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 10:48 PM)madbad3k Wrote:  ...
With TrackIR active - none of my keybindings work - and the side panels pop up automatically if I move / tilt my head to the right of left. Unless i keep my head at a particular angle and hold it there (which gives me neck ache) the panels pop down.. before I can operate any of the action keys.
...

Unlike VoiceAttack, which is a background app, TrackIR support has to be actively supported in a game, and the situation you describe is the design implementation that ED have built into the game.

I'm not fond of it myself, and I agree that it would be nice if pressing the key for the side panel(s) overrode TrackIR and focussed on the desired panel. The only suggestion I can make is to try playing with the TrackIR profile so that less head movement is needed to make the panels pop up - this is what I did and I barely need to glance to the side. The negative is that the panels pop up all the time when I don't want them.

I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home tonight I'll post my profile for you to download, in case it is of help.

Thanks for the reply..... I know you can adjust the profiles within TrackIR, however, I'm not that savvy with it.. so dont want to screw up my settings. The previous Elite profile seemed to work ok.. but its a while since I played the Alpha. The Beta 1.03 version now seems too sensitive and the screen flicks on and off too quickly to use.

TRackIR does come into its own when in combat or landing ships in a space Stn - as it seems so natural... but the UI panels issue is not handled well.

I have bought the full version of Voice Attack - (still trying to find the time to set it up for Elite) but i'm not sure how well it would integrate with the TrackIR (hardcoded by Frontier) - as opposed to VA - which is an addon. Would they be fighting each other?
I'm left handed, which doesnt help - so cant use a HOTAS system - sooo tooooo many buttons to manage.
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22-08-2014, 05:10 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 05:15 AM by Hellhawk.)
Post: #5
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  Thanks for the reply..... I know you can adjust the profiles within TrackIR, however, I'm not that savvy with it.. so dont want to screw up my settings. The previous Elite profile seemed to work ok.. but its a while since I played the Alpha. The Beta 1.03 version now seems too sensitive and the screen flicks on and off too quickly to use.

To be honest I've not used the native ED settings for ages, so I don't know how they compare now. I've used my own profile, derived from Flak's profile) for a long time now and it works reasonably well, althought the side panels are too sensitive.

(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  I have bought the full version of Voice Attack - (still trying to find the time to set it up for Elite) but i'm not sure how well it would integrate with the TrackIR (hardcoded by Frontier) - as opposed to VA - which is an addon. Would they be fighting each other?

The trial and full versions of VoiceAttack are both background apps (don't forget to run them in administrator mode). I'm using VoiceAttack and TrackIR with no issues at all. The only limitations are those of keybinding - eg if you have the "1" key bound to the panel on the left, and a VoiceAttack command to invoke it by saying "Nav Panel", then it will only work when TrackIR is not being used, but this is not a limit of VA, it's the normal override that TrackIR has over the keybinds in the game.

I have found one or two odd things - I couldn't get VA to open the comms systems, for example. No idea why. I also tried to insert preset text messages in the comms windows - it sort of works, but not reliably.

90% of my VoiceAttack commands comprise:

landing gear
cargo scoop
power distribution
targeting
flight assist on/off

I have a lot of others, but I don't use them much mainly because they are also bound to HOTAS buttons. You can really go to town with VA and have pre-recorded voice confirmations and sound effects that are triggered by different commands, but I'm waiting for the final game to see what FD do in this area. I do have a couple of fun sound bites you might like: http://www.firstgreatexpedition.org/mybb...43#pid9343

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22-08-2014, 09:36 AM
Post: #6
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  Many thanks for the response..... I'm sitting 2 feet away from the screen - so closeness isnt an issue. I used TrackIr originally, when the Alpha came out and Frontier and TrackIr released the 1st game profile for it. This seemed to work fine and wasn't causing an issue. I've not really been able to play Elite for some month or two - but since Beta 1.03 - the TrackIR is far too sensitive. You really do need to focus and hold your head at the correct angle / tilt - or the panel just flicks off. Im using a 27" DELL monitor - so its not some pidly small screen.
Even without the TrackIR issues - I still think the side panels need to be moved - as you cant access and manipulate them and fly ship easily.

Maybe you're still sitting too close. The 3D modeling of the cockpit only really became apparent when I was using the DK2. The Rift reset option re-positions your virtual head above your virtual shoulders. I quickly found the trick of leaning back and resetting so that when I sat normally my virtual self was leaning forward - made the text easier to read.

But I've not seen a reset for the TrackIR. I'm wondering if you need to physically position your head the correct distance from the camera for your virtual head to be in the correct location within the cockpit.

(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  It seems odd that the most important on board MFD displays - that would normally be located either on your HUD or dashboard - are actually on the side of your ship! Wouldnt happen in jet fighter.

These really should be located so they pop up at an angle left and right of your knees and below the Radar screen - so you can easily glance down and access them - whilst still having visuals to front etc. It would also assist the OR and TRackIR users to... as tilting your head down a fraction - is a lot less painful and uncomfortable - than having to hold your head / neck in a sideward tilt and turn.

As someone who flew fighter sims (15 years ago but it still counts) I know what you mean. I find the red lights are really annoying. I use to work in the military sector and one thing I learnt from there is you don't show a red unless it's important. Even the ground staff.

I was involved in reconnaissance, and we built a system that showed a little bit of red when the flag had not triggered. The photo interpreters really didn't like that because they had been trained not to ignore red. I put in a request to change that to the devs but so far no joy. Probably not a high priority, and I somehow doubt not something they'll do anyway.

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22-08-2014, 05:42 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 06:02 PM by madbad3k.)
Post: #7
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
Hi Dobbo, thanks for the replies[/color]

(22-08-2014 09:36 AM)Dobbo Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  Many thanks for the response..... I'm sitting 2 feet away from the screen - so closeness isnt an issue. I used TrackIr originally, when the Alpha came out and Frontier and TrackIr released the 1st game profile for it. This seemed to work fine and wasn't causing an issue. I've not really been able to play Elite for some month or two - but since Beta 1.03 - the TrackIR is far too sensitive. You really do need to focus and hold your head at the correct angle / tilt - or the panel just flicks off. Im using a 27" DELL monitor - so its not some pidly small screen.
Even without the TrackIR issues - I still think the side panels need to be moved - as you cant access and manipulate them and fly ship easily.

Maybe you're still sitting too close. The 3D modeling of the cockpit only really became apparent when I was using the DK2. The Rift reset option re-positions your virtual head above your virtual shoulders. I quickly found the trick of leaning back and resetting so that when I sat normally my virtual self was leaning forward - made the text easier to read.
Well 2ft is the mimimum distance - any more and I cant reach my joystick or read / see the detail on the screen.

But I've not seen a reset for the TrackIR. I'm wondering if you need to physically position your head the correct distance from the camera for your virtual head to be in the correct location within the cockpit.

Hellhawk has TrackIR too and he also comments that the panels are too sensitive. He's made some suggestions too.

(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  It seems odd that the most important on board MFD displays - that would normally be located either on your HUD or dashboard - are actually on the side of your ship! Wouldnt happen in jet fighter.

These really should be located so they pop up at an angle left and right of your knees and below the Radar screen - so you can easily glance down and access them - whilst still having visuals to front etc. It would also assist the OR and TRackIR users to... as tilting your head down a fraction - is a lot less painful and uncomfortable - than having to hold your head / neck in a sideward tilt and turn.

As someone who flew fighter sims (15 years ago but it still counts) I know what you mean. I find the red lights are really annoying. I use to work in the military sector and one thing I learnt from there is you don't show a red unless it's important. Even the ground staff.

I was involved in reconnaissance, and we built a system that showed a little bit of red when the flag had not triggered. The photo interpreters really didn't like that because they had been trained not to ignore red. I put in a request to change that to the devs but so far no joy. Probably not a high priority, and I somehow doubt not something they'll do anyway.
Yep, I'm still in the military just (32 yrs), and have been flying Combat sims like you since the early 80s. Unfortunately Flight sims are a lot more complex, so being left handed - there are too many buttons and not enough fingers these days - unless you go HOTAS (which i struggle with). I still think the side panels are in a daft spot - they really do need placing closer together just below cockpit level - for easy access / viewing and flying. I think that Frontier need to remember that everyone playing the Alpha and Beta are 'paying' customers - who are committed - regardless of bugs and design flaws etc (fully appreciative its only BETA) - but on full release it will get a 'drubbing' if controls are too fidly or unfriendly. Money will talk.

Thanks for the replies

(22-08-2014 05:10 AM)Hellhawk666 Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  Thanks for the reply..... I know you can adjust the profiles within TrackIR, however, I'm not that savvy with it.. so dont want to screw up my settings. The previous Elite profile seemed to work ok.. but its a while since I played the Alpha. The Beta 1.03 version now seems too sensitive and the screen flicks on and off too quickly to use.

To be honest I've not used the native ED settings for ages, so I don't know how they compare now. I've used my own profile, derived from Flak's profile) for a long time now and it works reasonably well, althought the side panels are too sensitive.

(22-08-2014 04:02 AM)madbad3k Wrote:  I have bought the full version of Voice Attack - (still trying to find the time to set it up for Elite) but i'm not sure how well it would integrate with the TrackIR (hardcoded by Frontier) - as opposed to VA - which is an addon. Would they be fighting each other?

The trial and full versions of VoiceAttack are both background apps (don't forget to run them in administrator mode). I'm using VoiceAttack and TrackIR with no issues at all. The only limitations are those of keybinding - eg if you have the "1" key bound to the panel on the left, and a VoiceAttack command to invoke it by saying "Nav Panel", then it will only work when TrackIR is not being used, but this is not a limit of VA, it's the normal override that TrackIR has over the keybinds in the game.

Yip, I always set my programs to Administer properties in W7 64 - Regarding keybindings, I'll give that a go - I've already moved all my keys to rightside of keyboard and number pad - being a Southpaw.
Have you got a TrackIR profile I could perhaps try, please?


I have found one or two odd things - I couldn't get VA to open the comms systems, for example. No idea why. I also tried to insert preset text messages in the comms windows - it sort of works, but not reliably.

Have you tried the latest version - they have more extended macros etc ?

90% of my VoiceAttack commands comprise:

landing gear
cargo scoop
power distribution
targeting
flight assist on/off

I have a lot of others, but I don't use them much mainly because they are also bound to HOTAS buttons. You can really go to town with VA and have pre-recorded voice confirmations and sound effects that are triggered by different commands, but I'm waiting for the final game to see what FD do in this area. I do have a couple of fun sound bites you might like: http://www.firstgreatexpedition.org/mybb...43#pid9343

I'll try them out thanks.

Of topic I know... but have you noticed any 'thrust control' issues when trying to land at the 'pads' situated immediately below the space-dock entrance door of the new duel wheel space-stations? I've destroyed my ship twice now (all my cargo and credits vaporised too!!). I've found that if I go a couple of feet too far forward off the PAD - towards the Pad dockingtower - the forward and reverse thrusters suddenly 'invert' and either accelerate forwards or backwards at full speed - and i end 'pin-balling' about until i explode. I'm not sure if its a joystick /keyboard 'input' issue or whether its the closeness to the entrance port - and triggered by NPC ships entering / exiting or manouvering too close to the PAD and my ship?
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22-08-2014, 08:02 PM
Post: #8
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
(22-08-2014 05:42 PM)madbad3k Wrote:  ...I think that Frontier need to remember that everyone playing the Alpha and Beta are 'paying' customers - who are committed - regardless of bugs and design flaws etc (fully appreciative its only BETA) - but on full release it will get a 'drubbing' if controls are too fidly or unfriendly. Money will talk.

The side panels were discussed at length and heatedly for some time back in alpha, but to little effect. I would be very surprised if anything substantial was changed now. Just getting single keybinds for landing gear and the cargo scoop was a major victory.

(22-08-2014 05:42 PM)madbad3k Wrote:  Have you tried the latest version - they have more extended macros etc ?

Yes, running the latest version

(22-08-2014 05:42 PM)madbad3k Wrote:  Of topic I know... but have you noticed any 'thrust control' issues when trying to land at the 'pads' situated immediately below the space-dock entrance door of the new duel wheel space-stations? I've destroyed my ship twice now (all my cargo and credits vaporised too!!). I've found that if I go a couple of feet too far forward off the PAD - towards the Pad dockingtower - the forward and reverse thrusters suddenly 'invert' and either accelerate forwards or backwards at full speed - and i end 'pin-balling' about until i explode. I'm not sure if its a joystick /keyboard 'input' issue or whether its the closeness to the entrance port - and triggered by NPC ships entering / exiting or manouvering too close to the PAD and my ship?

Can't say I've noticed that.

Here's the profile - sorry that took a while

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8btfn9q25ij1j...6.xml?dl=0

download the .xml file and put it into your /NaturalPoint/TrackIR5/Profiles directory. It should come up as a selectable profile the next time you start TrackIR.

There is no deadzone, as I don't like them, and the movement is faster than the default. You shouldn't need to turn your head quite as far to the side, but the menus are still a bit twitchy. Good luck.

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22-08-2014, 08:06 PM
Post: #9
RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
If the thruster controls invert by the pad.

Check your landing overrides.

The landing overrides kick in when you lower your landing gear.

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25-08-2014, 04:32 PM
Post: #10
Tongue RE: In Game UI Side Panels & TrackIR5
Here's the profile - sorry that took a while

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8btfn9q25ij1j...6.xml?dl=0

download the .xml file and put it into your /NaturalPoint/TrackIR5/Profiles directory. It should come up as a selectable profile the next time you start TrackIR.

There is no deadzone, as I don't like them, and the movement is faster than the default. You shouldn't need to turn your head quite as far to the side, but the menus are still a bit twitchy. Good luck.
[/quote]

Many thanks for the profile - it plays a little easier with it - still get the twitchy side panels though.
Do you use your profile in one:one mode for all the axis?
or smooth, fast or slow (drop down options in axis / template )?

I take it there is no way to use Voice Attack to overcome the 'closing UI panels' when using TrackIr (as its hardcoded into ED) ?
I've seen Youtubes of VA in ED opening side panels and then doing multiple macros in them ie = powering down / up several systems etc
So would have like to have done that too?

Just seems a bit of a shame - as TrackIR is very immersive - but the UI Panels flickering off and on - when you're in the middle of 'Navigation' commands or 'Emergency Mass lock' stops coming out of Hyperjumps - as your'e heads turned away from the cockpit view - is plain daft and spoils the game.
As you said previously, ED wont entertain re-positioning the UI panels - to a more user friendly and 'logical' position in the cockpit - ie: under the dashboard - left and right of your knees (so much space there - and you have full visuals ahead - instead of smacking into the side of something when accessing the current side panels).

Last query - (sorry getting my money's worth Angel) is there a keyboard shortcut to open the Galaxy map - as i have to lock my head left and scroll all through NAV panel before I get to it (quickly before it flickers off!!)? I been looking for tutorials for it - but not seen any yet - I dont find it that helpfull (so prob not using it correctly) - it seems more 'presentation over substance'. I find Slopeys BPC much better in planning travel from A to B, and it isn't even a map!
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